19 replies to this topic

[Cristiano]

how many scripts you was downloading at the same time?

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[_def_x_]

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I wasn/t warned or given any indicatcation the size of this

Within moments of retrieving the scripts (you must have selected a few) and the download begins, the size of the download is shown, all you needed to do was hit Exit to stop the download. I might also add, if you were unsure of how APUP works, why not ask for a few pointers before getting started? I concur it may be a good idea to provide a "guesstimate" of the size of the download in the "Depot".

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It's over 670 mb.

...XP SP3 is 226MB
...Vista x86 is 263MB
...2000 SP4 is 250MB

What all did you select?

Just know this, you can exit APUP at any time, and when ready to resume, select the same scripts (hopefully only one OS at a time), and APUP will begin again, starting with the file it was downloading when exited. It will start the last file from the beginning.

Mike

Edited by gUiTaR_mIkE, 21 March 2009 - 10:55 AM.

[Cristiano]

ptb release has about 529 MB and ptg release has about 534 MB. booth are bigger, because there's language packs for the .net and is far more easy to me handle those in a single package. also, vista_x64 has about 305 MB, extras package has about 68,2 MB, the .net enu has about 305 MB and direct x has about 86,2 MB. i don't know the exact size for the office releases

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[_def_x_]

It may help to add the addition of an estimated download size for a new release in the "Depot" so users will know:

Last Monthly Updates Added: February 2009 - (Total Download: 263MB {estimated})

Mike

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It may help to add the addition of

English obviously isn't my first language.

Edited by gUiTaR_mIkE, 21 March 2009 - 10:57 AM.

[James]

gUiTaR_mIkE, on Mar 21 2009, 03:49 AM, said:

It may help to add the addition of an estimated download size for a new release in the "Depot" ...

Good idea. I've already started doing this. It will be done!

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[Cristiano]

in fact, apup himself had that info, in that section that is written "calculating". but nobody was using it and erik has removed the info in apup 1.0.5. an idea, if apup be rewritten: in the confirmation screen, the total size of the selected scripts could be showed

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[James]

gUiTaR_mIkE, on Mar 21 2009, 01:26 AM, said:

...XP SP3 is 226MB
...Vista x86 is 263MB
...2000 SP4 is 250MB

I make the releases about 25MB smaller than that. How are you measuring them?

I would measure the size of a release from the modules folder tree only, which thus excludes other files associated with the AP engine etc.

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[_def_x_]

Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear. Since I have separate folders for each OS I was using properties for the
whole folder rather than just modules.

Using Size on disk: for the modules folder only, this is what I get:

...XP SP3........208 MB (218,464,256 bytes)
...Vista x86.....243 MB (255,246,336 bytes)
...2000 SP4.....230 MB (242,122,752 bytes)

That's why I suggested the word "Guess-timate". Depending on the partitioning, formatting, clustering etc on the disk, it can
only be an average.

Edited by gUiTaR_mIkE, 22 March 2009 - 01:33 PM.

[cme4pc]

I just completed an apup d/l pass to a "clean" folder (one with only the apup files decompressed) eg. c:\apup.

In after launching apup, the following options were selected.

AP Updater
AP Engine
AP Windows XP SP3 x86 Eng
Direct X
.Net
Extras
Java

No errors were given on the download (amazing.)
Running Apup a second time with /log switch verified all d/l components.
The total size of the \apup directory tree is approx. 685MB.

Obviously, this is approaching the capacity of a standard CD R disc and it would be beneficial to for this batches size to stay under the 700mb threshold. Not all the older computers out there have DVD drives or modern USB. Of course, copying AP across a network, thumb drives and DVD's circumvent the CD-R size limitation, but I can understand why a pre-download estimate on size could be useful for planning disc burning prior to running the apup d/l process.

In other words, this should produce a single cd-r disc that has most the major components to install the major components, security patches, etc., to update a clean build system w/ only MS Windows XP SP3 (Home, Pro or MCE) installed. This may take a few passes, 1st w/ IE7 and .Net, 2nd w/hotfixes, 3rd with tweaks and extras, etc. to produce a stable build, HOWEVER, everything needed is there on the disc.

This size limitation would also justify putting IE8 distro on a seperate Addon. If all you have is a CD R capable drive, then you are probably not going to be able to run IE8 anyway. My understanding is that IE8 is really designed for Windows 7 and ported for downward compatiblity with the earlier OS's, so there are bound to be compatibility issues at the OS level and with other comm enabled apps.

[_def_x_]

Hi cme4pc...

All good points and have been discussed before. I see 2 ways of handling this.

1. Return to providing (displaying) the download size in the APUP selections window - the user will need to be aware of (total) size.

2. Which is more sophisticated - while keeping 1 above.
Have APUP "total" the size of the download (displayed in status bar, title bar, defined space in window) as you make your selections.
APUP will then throw out a Warning (popup) with a statement "size beyond CD-R" or something similar at some pre-defined size maximum.

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In after launching apup, the following options were selected. - Direct X - .Net - Extras - Java

I might also add that you selected these, therefore increasing the size of the download.

I have already concurred information about download size is needed but, remember that AutoPatcher / APUP are a vehicle for making updating your PC easier, but, AutoPatcher / APUP are not the developers of the products so if you think you need / want a particular update it is your responsibility to seek out the manufacturer and gather important information, including size and installation procedures.

=> About IE8
You wont see IE8 in AutoPatcher / APUP any time soon until it is clear IE8 is stable and a needed update - in time it will be I'm sure.

Mike

[Cristiano]

> stay under the 700mb threshold
we know that, but ms dictates the size of the updates, not us. my cd version has about 695mb each month, with the .nets (and in my locale version, i also need the language packs, that makes that package bigger than the english ones), the direct x package, the java package and adobe reader and i didn't stripped anything that i don't have any use for (that you may very well do, it will take you just a few minutes and it can be done when you are creating the cd to be burned). and, just an idea: i do have an dvd reader that i can put in any machine, if required. i also have an mobile hd that i can put in any machine through IE, meaning that i don't require even USB or even a working cdrom. also an "fix-it" guy, you should know that you need that too...

> If all you have is a CD R capable drive, then you are probably not going to be able to run IE8 anyway
that depends a lot of the machine. but still, if you rip off the things that you will not need if you will install ie7 or ie8, then you may make it fits in cdr media. also, there's one thing that i do since a long time: i don't run autopatcher from cd anymore. it takes more time to install the updates, to load, everything. all that i need to do is copy the stuff to the hd

> IE8 distro
pal, ie7 will be removed soon. we just keep the current version for any software. for now, just for now, ie7 and ie8 may live side by side, but in a few months, we will keep only the IE that comes in the box (meaning the IE6 updates) and ie8. besides, do you think that ms will keep releasing updates for ie7 after ie8, just because some people don't like update his own hardware? vista is running from some time to prove that ms doesn't care for those that don't wanna update his own hardware. besides, i'm running ie8 in 2 athlon xp 2600+ 1GB ram and booth runs it nicely. in less than 2 yours, i will do another test, with an sempron 2200+ 256 ram (vga shared), just to see if the claims that you need an C2D to run IE aren't some kind of overreact (and i'm betting that they are).

also, ms us to let old software die alone without any kind of updates. i'm fixing an windows me machine right now. that machine doesn't have any sort of update anymore and his owner is running ie6 at that machine just because he wants to. there's several browsers around that offer a lot more security than this one

this are just my 2 cents... you can buy the idea of making an cleaning at the stuff that you won't need if you wish. just to give you an idea of, my IE8 only version of autopatcher has abut 684MB and i've just removed the updates for wmp9, 10, the updates for ie7 and ie7 himself. and still, it is an full package, with direct x, java, my own version of the extras package, adobe reader, 7zip, etc. and still there's some fat that i can cut, because i don't need several of the things that are included in the packages that i do. but since a lot of people may require, they are in there...

> You wont see IE8 in AutoPatcher / APUP any time soon
i've added this one at ptb and ptg releases to those that wish it, but i didn't remove ie7. it is still in there to those that wish it

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edit: i've forgot... my personal version also have msn 2009 (msn only. not that 135Mb of garbage) in an special module that i did for it

[cme4pc]

@ Guitar and Cristiano

I know I could de-select the additional modules, or manually delete out files to keep everything under the CD-R size limitation and at some point will probably have to do so. Well aware that MS controls component/patch sizes, replacement / updating of patches, server availability, patch effectiveness, etc. and I appreciate having a tool that gathers all this together and makes deployment so much less of a PITA.

I was not complaining and am not demanding anything as far as performance/features of AP. Have been using product for years, well before the infamous MS C&D. I think it's a crucial and outstanding tool in the techbox. Thanks for all the work everyone does.

I was just reporting objectively what my results were after running Apup to D/L all the components and modules that I like to use when updating a "Clean install" of Win XP SP3 from MS OEM install discs. I like all the features and tweaks available that you fine fellows have built in and it saves a tremendous amount of time to DL with those selections in order to do the patching-updating-tweaking. I was just sharing the info since the script was recently updated.

Cristiano is correct about better deployment methods than CD-R, and I usually copy files to HDU (USB or Internal), USB stick or via network share. Occasionally, I'm dealing with an older machine bios sets (USB 1.1 only), or hardware (ESPECIALLY notebooks with proprietary hdu connections,) or hardware performance/capacity issues, that don't handle these methods well or it's just more convenient to do a disc based AP deployment. This sometimes saves me the step of deleting AP folders after deployment. Slow = using MS Update and CD based AP deploy is still a million times faster. It's also not my preference to ship away hardware when a disc will do. Any way, I may just be my own stupid lazy self sometimes, but really does come in handy to have a CD-R based deployment option available for the dinosaur era machines, and hopefully MS will co-operate on its end.

Why on earth would anyone be running W98ME? If the hardware is so old, then go back to W98se or better yet a modern linux distro for gosh sakes..... but that's another thread on a different forum.

re IE8

MS has released different versions of IE8 for XP, Vista and presumably a compatible version for Win7Beta. I agree with Cristiano and doubt that dual core is required to run, but then again I haven't forgotten the lessons of Aero. IE8 would not run on early Win 7 beta, so clearly its a work in progress, and all hardware requirements aside, there are components in IE8 that will cause conflict with comm exe's in other applications. One i'm hearing about is the updater for quickbooks. I agree, however BOTH IE6 and IE7 are on their way out. As is XP if MS had it's way. The word is that Win7 should be available "in time for christmas season" this year and a upgrade coupon will go with sales on new vista machines June 28th or there abouts.
Will keep track of IE8 developments on other threads here.

Also still getting the "Unofficial/Unsupported Release" flag in spite of ZERO errors in log files... I know... different thread.

Everything is working fine however.

Again many thanks for making AP such a great utility. Keep up the good work.

[_def_x_]

cme4pc, I don't look at your post as complaining, so please don't think that from anything I've said (typed), but, I will ask point blank, you typed roughly 800 words and I'm not sure exactly what the "thesis statement" is, what exactly are you trying to address?

Are you asking that APUP better aid the user in setting up a properly sized download to fit nicely on CD, by the use of warnings or popup windows stating size etc?

If you look at my "sig" you will see that I recommend separate folders for the OSs, Office, Extras, etc. When I want to "copy" a module or modules over to other media, I'm good to go. The only caveat to this setup is you have to pay close attention to which module you are running when updating (updating the release that is), again, not a problem for me and I find it pretty straight forward.

I'm also going to assume you wish APUP to be an extensive GUI with enough buttons to "dummy-proof" it's use, it may happen but it bares repeating - the AutoPatcher / APUP user base is expected to be some-what savvy. If they can create an ISO and burn it to CD, I don't know why they couldn't handle (manage) having a few of the modules separated out so the "overall" size doesn't become an issue.

Mike

[Cristiano]

> Why on earth would anyone be running W98ME?
the people who buy the license us to stay with that until the end of the machine. besides, that machine doesn't go to the internet and it also doesn't have any anti-virus (just a few works under win9x). so, the owner still has that machine to work like this "state of the art" machine:


and, by the way, i've finished the test with that semprom 2200+, 256mb (8 shared), that could be very well in some nightmares. it works so fast as ie7. but in my tests, i us to disable the features that i aren't really required, like the "more porn advisor" or the "smart screen" feature. don't believe? go ahead and try it

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[cme4pc]

gUiTaR_mIkE, on Mar 22 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

Are you asking that APUP better aid the user in setting up a properly sized download to fit nicely on CD

That would be nice. Not a deal breaker or necessary, but a nice feature.

gUiTaR_mIkE, on Mar 22 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

I recommend separate folders for the OSs, Office, Extras, etc. .... assume you wish APUP to be an extensive GUI with enough buttons to "dummy-proof"

This is exactly what I do and the I/F is entirely adequate as is.

If anything, it would be nice is would be for AP to automatically generate a log on the first D/L pass, but again, no biggie to drop to the command prompt and run with /Log. Or figure out the unsupported/unofficial flag.

The process is simple enough, and these are all minor issues with which I take no issue and make no fuss. Just trying to share info from a user's prospective and


@ Cristiano
I understand and kept a W98SE system running myself up until a year or so ago... protection via obsolesence. It never got a bug. And I understand that you do what the client asks and don't fix what isn't broken when they are happy. But still... W98ME?... LOL... Just makes me wonder how many years XP/2003 will be in use past the release of Win 7. The year 2050, when someone finally develops telepathic user IF.

Am a little unclear on your satisfaction / results running IE8 on less than state of the art hardware, but I've got numerous older boxes, or can simulate via VM, with which to do some experimenting of my own with the different versions of XP, Vista, Win7 and IE8. MS has a history of putting out product and testing in the market, so I'm not installing on any mission critical units just yet. Win 7 and IE8 do look promising and finally a worthy windows replacement for our beloved XP, provided you have enough horsepower under the lid.


Thanks again.

[Cristiano]

> can simulate via VM
that don't give you the same results than a real machine.

> W98ME?... LOL
what can i say... for some people that have a lot of luck, winme is pretty stable. in some cases, more than 98. but around here, we give some names for some OS's, like astalaVISTA, MEpoupe (something like "spare me from this"). but we too give some names for cars too. there's one that we call of "Fui Ingênuo, Agora é Tarde" (something like "I was a fool, now is too late") LOL

> MS has a history of putting out product and testing in the market
you can bet that. beta testing? most of beta testers are windows users around the globe

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[_def_x_]

cme4pc

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If anything, it would be nice...

You mention a number of things that would make for good improvements but, in the wrong forum.

I think most of your posts belong in Feature requests / discussion.

Mike

[_def_x_]

Hi fendy83...

fendy83, on Apr 10 2009, 05:45 AM, said:

how i can download the whole autopatcher for windows xp sp3?

Read This Post - it should help you out.

Mike