9 replies to this topic

[darkarn]

Hi, I am working with dual-boot configs (Win XP (SP2 CD) and Win 7 (non-SP1 CD) ) and have the following queries.

1. Do I need one APUP folder per OS?
2. Is there a Readme or help documentation that I can refer to?
3. Does the process include all patches you need from a fresh install or only patches needed by the machine making the Autopatcher?

Thanks!

[ViroMan]

1) I would separate them so I can make separate update disks(if you want to make backups of the updates) but, I don't believe you need to.(I haven't seen the code for autopatcher.)

2) Read the pinned threads in this forum as well as the main threads for your chosen os. Not the whole thing but the first post of each (unless you want to read the whole thing.)
You didn't say if you had x86 or x64 so I only gave you the x86 links.
http://www.autopatch...6-hotfix-depot/
http://www.autopatch...6-hotfix-depot/

3) the scripts include all updates from a certain point on. For example
The AutoPatcher for Windows XP SP3 (x86) <-- this script expects you to already have installed sp3, thats why it says sp3. It will have all patches from SP3 on up to now. Unless Microsoft recently puts out an update or changes an old one.(which happens often.)

[_def_x_]

Hi darkarn

ViroMan summed it up pretty good, if you want more detail read on. I put these stock answers together for my friends who were a bit unsure of AutoPatcher & APUP "best practices". Btw, just my opinions - nothin' Official

Spoiler

Most users update multiple OSes with AutoPatcher, your issue is the service packs. The XP release targets SP3, and 7, SP1. There are a few updates that will install on XP SP2 but you might have more problems with 7, SP1 is required. I'm unsure how many updates will successfully install on 7 SP0. Check the forum threads for XP and 7, there's some information about prerequisites with links to service packs should you want to install them.

Open an .apm file with notepad, pick one from XP and 7, in \Critical, notice the dependencies, what the update expects to find installed on the given OS. Don't edit the file just look

AutoPatcher's code works with the apm file to show (or hide) updates that apply to an OS based on the service pack, IE, what's needed (the dependency) for the update to properly install. I'm not sure if the AutoPatcher code for Windows 7 is up-to-date, the problem, updates that only apply to 7 SP1 will also show (cannot be hidden) on a 7 SP0 machine. The install process will fail if the update needs SP1 and it isn't in place.

Spoiler

A1: I used to try and get users to separate the releases but not anymore, go ahead, download everything to the same folder. It makes it easier troubleshooting a problematic release with fewer scripts, but not impossible if there are more than a few in the same \modules folder. You will have to move or copy everything from point A to point B if all is in one folder - your call.

The only problem with APUP 1x (should be fixed in 2x) is too many scripts downloading at once can choke APUP. If APUP acts up select fewer scripts per each run.

Spoiler

A2: The documentation is scarce and outdated, read the pinned topics, they should help. You might also read the "AP Docs", also outdated but they offer more detail regarding AutoPatcher and APUP, this may answer some questions. If you have specific questions after using AutoPatcher and APUP, search the forums (they likely were already asked), or start a new thread, someone will help you.

Once APUP v2 is released and I become familiar with it I plan on creating a pdf quick start guide for my friends still using AutoPatcher and APUP. If it's worthy and the dev hasn't already put something together I will post a link to my guide here on the forums.

The "AP Docs" are here, link in post #4 - http://www.autopatch...dpost__p__14417

Spoiler

A3: Assuming the correct SP level is in place, AutoPatcher should pretty much keep you up-to-date similar to MU/WU. The scripts are static, by this I mean they don't scan your system and offer updates to download (unique to the system downloading ), rather, the script is updated every Patch Tuesday (adding and removing updates according to the bulletins), as well when there's a problem with the script. The SAME release is downloaded regardless if you download it from XP, Vista, or 7 - the contents will be the same.

One note, APUP will select the script matching the installed OS APUP is run from - if you're running APUP on XP and all you want is the Windows 7 or Adobe script, uncheck XP. I call this the native OS, it will (should) always be selected by default so pay attention. Also, if you need .NET or DirectX these are separate scripts from the OS scripts, have a look at the APUP Releases window for the complete list - the list will change, scripts will get added or removed as needed.

AutoPatcher should do a pretty good job of making current an XP system that recently installed SP3, or a Windows 7 system that installed SP1 - run the latest release and the OS should match MU/WU. If something is missing, the hope is the user will post a comment with specifics, if an update needs adding, removing, or editing, it will be done, time permitting.

The point of AutoPatcher is to have a mobile (portable) and reusable collection of updates that can be burned to CD or dropped on a thumb drive, and is capable of updating the OS the release targets. Just be sure the package is Official before you do anything. It's also a good idea to copy the release to the local drive on the system being update then run AutoPatcher (autopatcher.exe) to update, or APUP (apup.exe) should you want to add more scripts to an existing collection.

Important - use good judgement when updating a system, don't select 100 updates expecting the install process to go well. Also, there may be new updates appearing as you update a system - one update may be a prerequisite for another. As well, if you plan to update IE (from 6 to 7 or 8), or DirectX, any major install -> do it individually, reboot, make sure the install went OK.

If you want trouble update IE (6 to 8), DirectX 3.5 SP1(all 300+MBs), and .NET (to v4), add 50 OS updates as well -> (in one run) - you're sure to get it! This may sound derogatory but we've had people do this then come in here screaming "AutoPatcher broke their system".

[ViroMan]

nice Guitar_Mike I would love it, if you to helped with the wiki when it comes online.

[_def_x_]

ViroMan said:

I would love it, if you to helped with the wiki when it comes online.

My side project is on hiatus until the second week of January, I have some free time. Maybe we can get a nice wiki put together with the ability to create a pdf file for offline viewing, something along the lines of "create pdf from content", not sure if this is even possible.

I don't recall where I read it but I thought this last weekend was the date set to update IPB? Anyway, it would be a shame to delete the old content without first looking at it, maybe someone could recommend to Frank to move the old stuff to a temp directory on the ftp, \Stay.or.Go or \Keep.or.Delete, until members could have a look. I wont log on to the ftp without getting his permission first, I may not even have the updated info to do it.

I'm a bit dismayed that no one has stepped up to help Domenico. I had thought about offering to help him split the common script but I don't want to step on his business. If he wants my help he can PM me, I'll help if time permits.

It will be nice to finally see APUP v2, I've been holding my breath, I'm blue now, and figure I'll be purple (or worse) by final release day

[ViroMan]

lol I can release it now but, the cancel button still doesn't work due to looking into alternate methods to download.

[darkarn]

ViroMan, on 07 November 2011 - 06:47 PM, said:

1) I would separate them so I can make separate update disks(if you want to make backups of the updates) but, I don't believe you need to.(I haven't seen the code for autopatcher.)

2) Read the pinned threads in this forum as well as the main threads for your chosen os. Not the whole thing but the first post of each (unless you want to read the whole thing.)
You didn't say if you had x86 or x64 so I only gave you the x86 links.
http://www.autopatch...6-hotfix-depot/
http://www.autopatch...6-hotfix-depot/

3) the scripts include all updates from a certain point on. For example
The AutoPatcher for Windows XP SP3 (x86) <-- this script expects you to already have installed sp3, thats why it says sp3. It will have all patches from SP3 on up to now. Unless Microsoft recently puts out an update or changes an old one.(which happens often.)

gUiTaR_mIkE, on 07 November 2011 - 07:36 PM, said:

Hi darkarn

ViroMan summed it up pretty good, if you want more detail read on. I put these stock answers together for my friends who were a bit unsure of AutoPatcher & APUP "best practices". Btw, just my opinions - nothin' Official

Spoiler

Most users update multiple OSes with AutoPatcher, your issue is the service packs. The XP release targets SP3, and 7, SP1. There are a few updates that will install on XP SP2 but you might have more problems with 7, SP1 is required. I'm unsure how many updates will successfully install on 7 SP0. Check the forum threads for XP and 7, there's some information about prerequisites with links to service packs should you want to install them.

Open an .apm file with notepad, pick one from XP and 7, in \Critical, notice the dependencies, what the update expects to find installed on the given OS. Don't edit the file just look

AutoPatcher's code works with the apm file to show (or hide) updates that apply to an OS based on the service pack, IE, what's needed (the dependency) for the update to properly install. I'm not sure if the AutoPatcher code for Windows 7 is up-to-date, the problem, updates that only apply to 7 SP1 will also show (cannot be hidden) on a 7 SP0 machine. The install process will fail if the update needs SP1 and it isn't in place.

Spoiler

A1: I used to try and get users to separate the releases but not anymore, go ahead, download everything to the same folder. It makes it easier troubleshooting a problematic release with fewer scripts, but not impossible if there are more than a few in the same \modules folder. You will have to move or copy everything from point A to point B if all is in one folder - your call.

The only problem with APUP 1x (should be fixed in 2x) is too many scripts downloading at once can choke APUP. If APUP acts up select fewer scripts per each run.

Spoiler

A2: The documentation is scarce and outdated, read the pinned topics, they should help. You might also read the "AP Docs", also outdated but they offer more detail regarding AutoPatcher and APUP, this may answer some questions. If you have specific questions after using AutoPatcher and APUP, search the forums (they likely were already asked), or start a new thread, someone will help you.

Once APUP v2 is released and I become familiar with it I plan on creating a pdf quick start guide for my friends still using AutoPatcher and APUP. If it's worthy and the dev hasn't already put something together I will post a link to my guide here on the forums.

The "AP Docs" are here, link in post #4 - http://www.autopatch...dpost__p__14417

Spoiler

A3: Assuming the correct SP level is in place, AutoPatcher should pretty much keep you up-to-date similar to MU/WU. The scripts are static, by this I mean they don't scan your system and offer updates to download (unique to the system downloading ), rather, the script is updated every Patch Tuesday (adding and removing updates according to the bulletins), as well when there's a problem with the script. The SAME release is downloaded regardless if you download it from XP, Vista, or 7 - the contents will be the same.

One note, APUP will select the script matching the installed OS APUP is run from - if you're running APUP on XP and all you want is the Windows 7 or Adobe script, uncheck XP. I call this the native OS, it will (should) always be selected by default so pay attention. Also, if you need .NET or DirectX these are separate scripts from the OS scripts, have a look at the APUP Releases window for the complete list - the list will change, scripts will get added or removed as needed.

AutoPatcher should do a pretty good job of making current an XP system that recently installed SP3, or a Windows 7 system that installed SP1 - run the latest release and the OS should match MU/WU. If something is missing, the hope is the user will post a comment with specifics, if an update needs adding, removing, or editing, it will be done, time permitting.

The point of AutoPatcher is to have a mobile (portable) and reusable collection of updates that can be burned to CD or dropped on a thumb drive, and is capable of updating the OS the release targets. Just be sure the package is Official before you do anything. It's also a good idea to copy the release to the local drive on the system being update then run AutoPatcher (autopatcher.exe) to update, or APUP (apup.exe) should you want to add more scripts to an existing collection.

Important - use good judgement when updating a system, don't select 100 updates expecting the install process to go well. Also, there may be new updates appearing as you update a system - one update may be a prerequisite for another. As well, if you plan to update IE (from 6 to 7 or 8), or DirectX, any major install -> do it individually, reboot, make sure the install went OK.

If you want trouble update IE (6 to 8), DirectX 3.5 SP1(all 300+MBs), and .NET (to v4), add 50 OS updates as well -> (in one run) - you're sure to get it! This may sound derogatory but we've had people do this then come in here screaming "AutoPatcher broke their system".

1. Sure, I know that you can put all into one folder but how are you going to apply the patches to the different OSes with the same folder?
2. And I forgot to say that my Win 7 is x64 (that won't make much of a difference, right?)
3. So if I were to install the SPs first then use AutoPatcher, will the OSes be (almost) fully updated?
4. I was wondering why can't we install that many updates at once; did a qchain with Win XP without much problem (and was hoping to be able to do the same with Win 7)

Thanks guys!

[ViroMan]

3) Yes your os will be 95-100% updated. Minus updates for your individual computer devices.
4) AutoPatcher doesn't use qchain. It just runs each of the updates with the command /noreboot(or something similar) Some updates may demand an reboot no matter what we tell it.

[_def_x_]

re: post #7

A1: I covered this when I mentioned "dependencies". The updates have a target OS, the details are in the .apm file. Listed under WindowsVersion= you will have XP_X86, VISTA_X86, or SEVEN_X64, etc. When you run AutoPatcher the installed OS is detected and only updates that apply to that system should appear in the selection window.

Open a few apm files and have a look. The apm file acts as a pseudo mediator between AutoPatcher and the update, there are a number of criteria in an apm file that will list the update for installation and hopefully show it as installed.

A2: Make a difference regarding what exactly? Get the release that targets your OS, x86 or x64, XP, 7, Vista, etc. You seem to understand more than the average user, if you've been using qchain successfully. AutoPatcher is pretty straight-forward, it really is only slightly more sophisticated than qchain, maybe qchain with a GUI, and a few additional capabilities.

A3: Mostly yes. A good rule of thumb is to access MU/WU to see what shows as missing and report the findings to the forums.

A4: I mentioned from the get go - Btw, just my opinions - nothin' Official - nothing's changed. You can do as you see fit, it's your system after all.

[darkarn]

ViroMan, on 08 November 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

3) Yes your os will be 95-100% updated. Minus updates for your individual computer devices.
4) AutoPatcher doesn't use qchain. It just runs each of the updates with the command /noreboot(or something similar) Some updates may demand an reboot no matter what we tell it.

3. Sounds good to me!
4. ...and that's when all the problems start to come in?

gUiTaR_mIkE, on 08 November 2011 - 11:47 AM, said:

re: post #7

A1: I covered this when I mentioned "dependencies". The updates have a target OS, the details are in the .apm file. Listed under WindowsVersion= you will have XP_X86, VISTA_X86, or SEVEN_X64, etc. When you run AutoPatcher the installed OS is detected and only updates that apply to that system should appear in the selection window.

Open a few apm files and have a look. The apm file acts as a pseudo mediator between AutoPatcher and the update, there are a number of criteria in an apm file that will list the update for installation and hopefully show it as installed.

A2: Make a difference regarding what exactly? Get the release that targets your OS, x86 or x64, XP, 7, Vista, etc. You seem to understand more than the average user, if you've been using qchain successfully. AutoPatcher is pretty straight-forward, it really is only slightly more sophisticated than qchain, maybe qchain with a GUI, and a few additional capabilities.

A3: Mostly yes. A good rule of thumb is to access MU/WU to see what shows as missing and report the findings to the forums.

A4: I mentioned from the get go - Btw, just my opinions - nothin' Official - nothing's changed. You can do as you see fit, it's your system after all.

1. Let me rephrase myself: Can I use that AutoPatcher file for both OSes (should I create it by selecting both OSes)?
2. Thanks; I just want to be sure that the procedures/patches/etc is the same for Win 7 x64 too.
3. Will do (if I ever need to reformat, which is most probably yes)
4. Hmm... I don't know to be honest; just started using Win 7 recently and trying to get used to it...