41 replies to this topic

[Cristiano]

> If WinXP creates Web Folders by default then where are they created?
right. i'm not sure if the patch to be followed has the same names, since i'm running an OS in other language than you, but:
- right click at desktop;
- click at properties;
- there's an "desktop" tab in there. click on it;
- there's an "customize desktop" in there. click on it;
- at "desktop icons" tab, check web;
- now, what you see in there? webfolders, isn't?

if i'm not mistaken, blaze once told about this when i ask him the same question that you did right now

i believe that this shall help to understand webfolders too: http://msdn2.microso...y/ms531432.aspx

[]s

[DesertJerry]

 Cristiano, on Jan 25 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

> If WinXP creates Web Folders by default then where are they created?
right. i'm not sure if the patch to be followed has the same names, since i'm running an OS in other language than you, but:
- right click at desktop;
- click at properties;
- there's an "desktop" tab in there. click on it;
- there's an "customize desktop" in there. click on it;
- at "desktop icons" tab, check web;
- now, what you see in there? webfolders, isn't?

if i'm not mistaken, blaze once told about this when i ask him the same question that you did right now

i believe that this shall help to understand webfolders too: http://msdn2.microso...y/ms531432.aspx

[]s

Followed the instructions you gave - when I got to Web there was a window with the title Web pages: and in that window a box (not checked) entitled My Current Home Page. I highlighted that item and selected the Properties button. This brought up more info with tabs: Web Document, Schedule, and Download. As I had no idea as to what any of this meant I left things alone.

I'll check out the link you posted.

[DesertJerry]

 Cristiano, on Jan 25 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

i believe that this shall help to understand webfolders too: http://msdn2.microso...y/ms531432.aspx
[]s

Clicked on the link and went to the MSDN page - started reading; it may be in English but it was beyond my level of understanding - I am not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination.

Anything else?

[Cristiano]

> I am not a programmer
that doesn't help, in deed. this may explain a little bit how to use it:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/computing/Documen...webfolders.html

this gives you just an general idea, but it may be easy to understand the utility of it, even without know programming at all:
http://support.acmeinternet.com/howtofaqs/.../webfolders.htm


[]s

[DesertJerry]

OK - I give up.

I read all the stuff mentioned above.

I searched Microsoft for info on Web Folders.

I Googled Web Folders.

Everything I read says online server, college server, work server, own web site, etc, etc, etc.

Nothing I read indicates a home user with no online stuff of any kind would need or have a use for Web Folders.

Unless someone gives me a betetr explanation with documentation I'm just going to ignore all issues relating to my present and future use of Web Folder.

[Cristiano]

DesertJerry, please, read carefully. this service allows you have an kind of shortcut in a folder to an website. despide be active or not, this service is present in your system. just by that, this shall be updated, unless you wanna have an open door do be hacked someday

about ignore webfolders updates, it's your choice. the documentation was already pointed, but you didn't understud the security issues related to that.

[DesertJerry]

 Cristiano, on Jan 27 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

DesertJerry, please, read carefully. this service allows you have an kind of shortcut in a folder to an website. despide be active or not, this service is present in your system. just by that, this shall be updated, unless you wanna have an open door do be hacked someday

about ignore webfolders updates, it's your choice. the documentation was already pointed, but you didn't understud the security issues related to that.

As I said, I read many articles describing what Web Folders are and where the user creates them. There is no possible way for me to create a web folder anywhere. I don't have access to a server, a work server, a university server, etc etc etc - so where would I even think of creating one or many?

But, because Web Folders are part and parcel of XP I'll just leave them as is and know they are there but useless to anything I'm doing now or in the future.

Unless someone provides more explicit information on their possible use and creation I'm finished with this subject.

[Cristiano]

well, you may not create any webfolder, but also i said, the system does it for you. even if the system doesn't it for you, what is the problem of someone hack you and do it for you, just by exploiting one of the many security issues that xp has?

but again, it's your choice update or not your system. you probably is aware of your own security

[DesertJerry]

 Cristiano, on Jan 27 2008, 11:40 PM, said:

well, you may not create any webfolder, but also i said, the system does it for you. even if the system doesn't it for you, what is the problem of someone hack you and do it for you, just by exploiting one of the many security issues that xp has?

but again, it's your choice update or not your system. you probably is aware of your own security

Cristiano - we are not communicating here.

How can my system create Web Folders if there is no known, to me, place for them to be created? And, if they are being created - where are they? I've never seen any. I'm not doing it, I'm not telling the system to do it - so where?

Your comments, while sincere, are not making any sense when I have no frame of reference as to what you're talking about and none of the articles I read, for a couple of hours, helped.

[Cyrus]

 DesertJerry, on Jan 27 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

Cristiano - we are not communicating here.

How can my system create Web Folders if there is no known, to me, place for them to be created? And, if they are being created - where are they? I've never seen any. I'm not doing it, I'm not telling the system to do it - so where?

Your comments, while sincere, are not making any sense when I have no frame of reference as to what you're talking about and none of the articles I read, for a couple of hours, helped.

Your system does not create the folders, but there is a running SERVICE which allows their use, even when you do not have any web folders. It is this service which is always running that has the security holes.

[DesertJerry]

 Cyrus, on Jan 29 2008, 12:41 AM, said:

Your system does not create the folders, but there is a running SERVICE which allows their use, even when you do not have any web folders. It is this service which is always running that has the security holes.

OK - the SERVICE comment helps a bit. I just looked through services.msc and found no listing for Web Folders or WebDAV so I can only assume it's hidden and/or sneaky.

Meaning I have a running SERVICE I can't use, or don't know how to use, and can't turn off - or can I? Or should I? What's the impact? More info, if possible or available.

And that explains why AutoPatcher listed the Web Folders KB item as an update - even though the update would not, or could not, be installed.

Cyrus, thanks for a bit better explanation.

[Cyrus]

As far as I know there is no way to disable the service, as it is an integrated part of Windows/Internet Explorer, and a quick search on Google returned no results. My only suggestion is keep your computer updated, and you shouldn't have a problem with the security hole caused by this useless piece of Micro$hit (that can refer to web folders or Windows).

[Cristiano]

> Meaning I have a running SERVICE I can't use, or don't know how to use, and can't turn off - or can I?
networking services shall be installed in order to webfolders work. so, if you wanna prevent if from run... but again, this always can be enabled again by something or someone and, without updates, security holes that can expose your entire hd, just by doing an malicious script

[James]

Whilst we are arguing about Web Folders being an integral part of Windows (YES - IT IS!) Whether it can be removed or ignored (NO - IT CAN'T!). And -- is it a security risk even if you don't use, or ever intend to *knowingly* use it (YES - IT IS!)

Then aren't we losing track of seeing why it won't install for DesertJerry?

Has anyone had a look at KB907306.log? Does the log file explicitly CONFIRM a successful install? If so, why is the registry key not properly formed? In my personal experience: No registry key = Failed install (always!)

Note also that KB907306 is not a regular HotFix, it's an MSI package. These sometimes silently fail if
NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation has been set.

(i.e. HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem\NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation=0x00000001)

I'm not trying to start another argument here, I'm just trying to understand why a package should install for other people and yet not for DesertJerry. This is a personal view (obviously) but I am not yet convinced that the culprit is AutoPatcher itself.

Any further thoughts anyone?
--
James

[DesertJerry]

 James, on Jan 30 2008, 03:51 PM, said:

Has anyone had a look at KB907306.log? Does the log file explicitly CONFIRM a successful install? If so, why is the registry key not properly formed? In my personal experience: No registry key = Failed install (always!)

Note also that KB907306 is not a regular HotFix, it's an MSI package. These sometimes silently fail if
NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation has been set.

(i.e. HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem\NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation=0x00000001)

James

I ran Autopatcher with the /log switch and selected only KB907306. Indications were of a successful install, rebooted, checked the AutoPatcher folder - no log file and KB907306 still in black.

Above - KB907306 is not a regular hotfix, it's an MSI package? Explain. I chekced the KBb907306 folder and it is an .EXE file - or am I missing something here.

I checked my registry in the HKLM*** location indicated above = 0x00000000 - should it really be a 1? Hard drives are formatted FAT32 so does the NtfsDisable*** really apply?

[DesertJerry]

Oops - my error - I expected the log file to be in \AutoPatcher - foundit in \Windows. Here it is:

AutoPatcher 5.6 loaded the filesystem.

Detected English (1033) Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2

System Components:
Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.3252
Windows Media Player: 11.0.5721.5237
.NET Framework: 1.0.3705.3|1.0SP3|1.1.4322|1.1SP1|2.0.50727.1433|2.0SP1|3.1.21022|3.1SP1|3.5|3.5
SP0
Windows Installer: 3.1.4000.1823
DirectX: 4.09.00.0904
MSN/Live Messenger:

Office Components:
Microsoft Word: 11.0.8169.0
Microsoft Excel: 11.0.8169.0
Microsoft PowerPoint: 11.0.8169.0
Microsoft Outlook: 11.0.8169.0
Microsoft Access: 11.0.8166.0
Microsoft Project:
Microsoft Publisher: 11.0.8166.0
Microsoft OneNote:
Microsoft FrontPage:
Microsoft InfoPath: 11.0.8169.0
Microsoft Visio:
Microsoft SharePoint Designer:
Microsoft Groove:

No mention of KB907306 - anyone know why?

[James]

OK - I'll deal with the easy bit first:-

(1) NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation=0x00000000 - GOOD
(2) Using FAT32, so NtfsDisable8dot3NameCreation will not apply anyway - GOOD
put both these together and there should be no problem accessing the disks/folders/directories anywhere.

Now I need to explain my earlier remark "KB907306 is not a regular HotFix, it's an MSI package". By this I mean that inside the file "Webfldrs-KB907306-ENU.exe" is an MSI package, so the installer used by Windows for this package is msiexec.exe, not update.exe. BTW The Microsoft Installer (msiexec) no doubt can do very complicated installs, but also (in my experience) when it goes wrong it goes VERY wrong!

Since Webfldrs-KB907306-ENU.exe uses msiexec.exe, not update.exe then KB907306.log won't be created in \WINDOWS (apologies for the wrong/missing information in my earlier post). Instead, log files are created in Local Settings\Temp, as in (for example):
"C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temp"

In that folder should be a file like opatchinstall(nn).log, where nn is a number. This is the log of the install. I can't tell you what nn will be: if there is more than one, choose the one that has the same date and time as the install.

If this log file looks OK -- then I guess the ball is back in Erik's court, but, as I wrote last time:

Any further thoughts anyone?

--
James

[Erik Ramey]

@James - You are corrected when it comes to msi's which sometimes they can be a pain. Personally I like to work with MSI's if you deploy them correctly. Most of the time when an MSI fails, it's due to a prereq not being met. Other times, the update is installed via other means such as direct slipstream/integration into Windows.

I'm going to play with this one in the next couple of days. We will need to create some file based detections in order to iron this one out. I'll let you all know once I've updated the detections.

@DesertJerry - The log for AutoPatcher.exe differs from apup.exe. AutoPatcher.exe's log is mainly for the use of developers to make sure that all modules are being loaded properly.

[DesertJerry]

 James, on Jan 31 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

Since Webfldrs-KB907306-ENU.exe uses msiexec.exe, not update.exe then KB907306.log won't be created in \WINDOWS (apologies for the wrong/missing information in my earlier post). Instead, log files are created in Local Settings\Temp, as in (for example):
"C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temp"

In that folder should be a file like opatchinstall(nn).log, where nn is a number. This is the log of the install. I can't tell you what nn will be: if there is more than one, choose the one that has the same date and time as the install.

If this log file looks OK -- then I guess the ball is back in Erik's court, but, as I wrote last time:

James

James - I looked in the location specified and there was no log file - unless it was deleted after yesterday's attempt. I'm assuming any and all would still be there and not deleted/removed over time.

I'll have to try the update again now that you said to look in a different place. Will be back later.

[DesertJerry]

 James, on Jan 31 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

Since Webfldrs-KB907306-ENU.exe uses msiexec.exe, not update.exe then KB907306.log won't be created in \WINDOWS (apologies for the wrong/missing information in my earlier post). Instead, log files are created in Local Settings\Temp, as in (for example):
"C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temp"

In that folder should be a file like opatchinstall(nn).log, where nn is a number. This is the log of the install. I can't tell you what nn will be: if there is more than one, choose the one that has the same date and time as the install.

James - just went back and re-ran AutoPatcher with only KB907306 selected - same results and no log file created in \Local Settings\temp