9 replies to this topic

[helly]

I have done a first run of autopatcher. it shows many security updates are missing (see attached ap_initial_run.jpg), but windows updates show only important update is due to install (see windows_update.jpg)

I was wondering why the discrepancy? is it to do with security updates becoming redundant as new ones are rolled out? if that's the case it would be better not to have them on the list surely, because perhaps they shouldn't be installed?

Attached Files

•  ap_initial_run.jpg   372.57K   4 downloads
•  windows_update.jpg   35.3K   5 downloads

[_def_x_]

Hi Helly

I'm confused exactly what you're asking here.

The ap pic shows lots of BLUE updates - this means installed according to AutoPatcher, BLACK means not installed, a check means the update is viewed as Critical and will be selected for install, a BLACK update unchecked means the update is viewed as optional - just some FYI. The pic only has 5 updates selected for install, killbits is the only one visible. You have 5 updates to install, what updates are missing?

The Windows Update pic lists one, a Windows Defender definition update. I believe the AutoPatcher script that downloads Defender is Microsoft Security ENU Addon Pack.

If you're asking why ANY updates are BLACK (uninstalled) in AutoPatcher, in other words, your system is fully updated so everything should be BLUE (installed), that makes sense.

The Windows Seven (7) script is a bit behind, the maintainer is pretty busy as of late, there will be more discrepencies as time rolls on.

It's probably best to be specific to nail down the exact updates that need attention...

... I have update (kb123456) installed via WU yet AutoPatcher shows it BLACK (uninstalled) - why?
... Windows Update list update (KB654321) is available for install yet AutoPatcher doesn't even list it - can we add it?

What I would do Helly,
...if you use Defender update the definition via WU, and, if you want to, download the script I mentioned that contains Defender - But Don't Install Defender using AutoPatcher - just see after you've updated the definitions via WU if Defender is BLUE or BLACK in AutoPatcher.

...If you've updated killbits it should be BLUE as well and not selected for install unless there's a detection issue or the script has an outdated killbits version.

These 2 issues are a starting point but overall Helly your system appears to be very up-to-date, good job.

[helly]

ah so sorry for the confusion. I realise now I was being a bit of a dope! the blue boxes in the drop down tree indicate some/all elements are already up to date am I right? so then I looked at the list and for some reason saw that blue entries with an option to check for installation were the ones not installed. that corresponds much better with my system. I have used WU to update defender (actually don't kmnow why I bother as I don't use it!), then I will check if it is updated

I take your point about being specific but you can appreciate with my confusion it would have been a big list to send! will do that in future though

I really like autopatcher, used to use it years ago and am trying to sort out an easy "restore system" for my computer and was fighting with windows backup, when I remembered this brilliant program and found it's been brought up to date for W7 64bit. yaah

anyhow I also take your point about maintainers being busy, if you could do with help let me know, I have some programming experience (mostly in C++ and Java)

1 other teeny little suggestion. I don't know if it's just me but I think if the items that are already installed were indicated in a light-grey or even light-blue, and even possibly disabled so they couldn't be installed it would be more obvious (to those simpletons like me) that they are already installed. They actually look kind of highlighted like they need installing in the current setup, IMHO

[helly]

update: I have run WU and now although WU says all items are up to date I still have the following updates missing:

the activex killbits update (I think that may be because I don't really use IE much and poss. that's an IE related update?)

KB2647753 and KB2496290 - these are marked as recommended (and presumably are optional as WU isn't indicating them as due) however on going to the MS info on them they look fairly important. BTW LOVE that I can click on "more info" from the dialog, such a nice touch. I guess that's not the fault of autopatcher, but MS

I'm surprised the WU agent needs updating as according to MS I WU should do that... tut tut

and that the JRE needs an update...but then again my java version (in control panel) indicates it's v7 update 2 , on the cmd line the version is "1.7.xxx" and on the java download site apparently update 11 is available. gawd Java versioning is craazee so I'm not too bothered about that

[_def_x_]

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

ah so sorry for the confusion. I realise now I was being a bit of a dope! the blue boxes in the drop down tree indicate some/all elements are already up to date am I right? so then I looked at the list and for some reason saw that blue entries with an option to check for installation were the ones not installed. that corresponds much better with my system. I have used WU to update defender (actually don't kmnow why I bother as I don't use it!), then I will check if it is updated

No worries.

In AutoPatcher terms:
BLUE=Installed, BLACK=Uninstalled.
All Critical Uninstalled updates should be BLACK & Checked by default.
All NonCritical Uninstalled updates should be BLACK & UnChecked by default.

I wouldn't use the term up-to-date, the script might have an update but Microsoft might have a newer version, I'm guessing that's the issue with killbits, why it's BLACK in AutoPatcher and not suggested at WU. So don't install killbits in AutoPatcher until you determine it's the latest version, I think you have the latest and AutoPatcher is behind, I'm not positive until the version numbers are compared.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

I take your point about being specific but you can appreciate with my confusion it would have been a big list to send! will do that in future though

Not a problem.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

anyhow I also take your point about maintainers being busy, if you could do with help let me know, I have some programming experience (mostly in C++ and Java)

You may want to ask ViroMan, He's the project manager.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

1 other teeny little suggestion. I don't know if it's just me but I think if the items that are already installed were indicated in a light-grey or even light-blue, and even possibly disabled so they couldn't be installed it would be more obvious (to those simpletons like me) that they are already installed. They actually look kind of highlighted like they need installing in the current setup, IMHO

Post your suggestions here - http://www.autopatch...ature-requests/

[_def_x_]

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

update: I have run WU and now although WU says all items are up to date I still have the following updates missing:

If by missing do you mean absent from AutoPatcher, or do you mean shown as not installed (BLACK) when it should be BLUE? Missing in AutoPatcher speak means there is no such update in the script. I wonder if you're talking about a detection issue and using the term missing - this can get confusing.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

the activex killbits update (I think that may be because I don't really use IE much and poss. that's an IE related update?)

See my previous post about killbits, this might be a case of either a bad detection or AutoPatcher has an older version whereas WU installed a newer version!!! Did you install the latest Cumulative Security Update for ActiveX Killbits available from Microsoft on your system? If you did ignore the listing (UnCheck) in AutoPatcher for now, the script needs to update the exe or apm.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

KB2647753 and KB2496290 - these are marked as recommended (and presumably are optional as WU isn't indicating them as due) however on going to the MS info on them they look fairly important. BTW LOVE that I can click on "more info" from the dialog, such a nice touch. I guess that's not the fault of autopatcher, but MS

Both updates are considered Optional, you need to decide if you want to install them. If you do install them using AutoPatcher, after a reboot of your system they should be BLUE, if not, please report it, no need to try to install a second time.

If you think they've been installed by WU yet still BLACK in AutoPatcher, please report the issue.

Remember, an update not needed on your system wont be shown to you at WU/MU - it doesn't apply to your system. AutoPatcher can't always determine this until after an attempt to install an update. The log file should say somewhere - "Doesn't apply...", keep this in mind.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

I'm surprised the WU agent needs updating as according to MS I WU should do that... tut tut

If you use WUA make sure you have the latest, regardless if you update via AutoPatcher WU/MU.

 helly, on 19 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

and that the JRE needs an update...but then again my java version (in control panel) indicates it's v7 update 2 , on the cmd line the version is "1.7.xxx" and on the java download site apparently update 11 is available. gawd Java versioning is craazee so I'm not too bothered about that

BEWARE - JAVA(JRE) HAS SECURITY ISSUES

You need to either update to 7u11 which you already know about or simply delete 7u2 outright. Java has had security issues for a long time. Use Java(JRE) with much caution!!! If you're going to keep it on your system always have the latest (stable) version installed, I'm not talking about Beta versions, and be ready to disable Java in your browser should the latest version become exploitable - very likely!!!

[ViroMan]

Quote

anyhow I also take your point about maintainers being busy, if you could do with help let me know, I have some programming experience (mostly in C++ and Java)

Currently Apup and AP are in Visual Basic. For us programmers of C++ it hurts our brain to try and think in VB. They are close enough that its possible to program in either except VB absolutely hates pointers. I have a translated version of APUP to C++ with heavy hacking of crap code(stuff not used anymore) and inefficient areas(tons of it). I called it apup2. It was working and done but, had two glitches in the download code that I never got sorted out before I lost access to my computer. It was nice in that it could do multiple downloads at once. Something that's a bit harder to do in VB code since VB code CAN NOT MULTI-THREAD! I got code in a side branch of Apup that can download more then one at a time but, im working out a bug there too(have not touched it in a few months though).

If you want to help, I would love help. If you know how to create DLL files, we could collaborate on getting a start on Autopatcher 2 which will combine both AP and APUP together and use a completely new APM format.

[helly]

first off this thread seems to have broken up into multiple fibres, no longer relevant to the title so some of the stuff should probably be moved into new threads...anyhoo

@NunYa thing about the JRE is that sometimes you need several old versions as backward compatibility is not always, well compatible for existing programs written in java. when you say disable java in your browser do you mean javascript. I generally have that disabled anyway by default

@viroman I've sent you a message...perhaps we can continue there off this thread...

[_def_x_]

 helly, on 20 January 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

@NunYa thing about the JRE is that sometimes you need several old versions as backward compatibility is not always, well compatible for existing programs written in java. when you say disable java in your browser do you mean javascript. I generally have that disabled anyway by default

I'm referring to Java(JRE), the runtime. In Mozilla Firefox you can find Java by clicking Tools - Add-ons - Plugins

Notice the warning from Mozilla about Java!!! Here's the page linked to for More Information - https://addons.mozil...ox/blocked/p182

As long as you're aware, as they say, the rest is up to you, your decision

[helly]

@nunya ta for that I don't think I even ever use java plugin in FF. I have disabled it now.t thanks again